Ashok Gupta, a pioneering figure in health technology, has dedicated his career to enhancing the well-being of individuals worldwide. As the founder and CEO of the Gupta Program, he has developed innovative neuroplasticity brain retraining techniques for chronic immune conditions like long COVID-19 and myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome. His approach blends mindfulness and scientific insights, aiming to transform the lives of those suffering from these conditions. Gupta’s venture, iRise, further reflects his commitment to personal transformation. This platform offers a comprehensive collection of courses, classes, and events designed to empower and uplift individuals. His multifaceted role as a speaker, filmmaker, and health practitioner emphasizes his passion for health and personal growth, impacting the lives of thousands globally through the Gupta Program.
For a limited time, the Gupta Program is allowing health practitioners to sign up for complimentary access to the full brain training program to help support long-term health outcomes for their patients that could benefit (learn more here).
1) In the Gupta Program, there is an emphasis on the importance of joy in the healing process. Can you elaborate on how seeking joy can directly influence one’s recovery journey, especially for someone with a chronic condition?
As you may know, with our hypothesis as to what causes lots of chronic diseases (i.e., Long COVID, pain syndromes like fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, and mold illness, etc.), we believe that underlying that is a maladaptive threat response. The brain believes that it is under threat, that it is under fire, and therefore must overstimulate our defense systems—so that’s the nervous system and the immune system. In the brain’s environment, it’s very difficult for us at a psychological level, and a brain level, to both be in a fear detection and threat state and be in a joyful state at the same time. This is how the brain flips. It’s a bit like if you are telling somebody, “I want you to be really sad, but also imagine your most positive memory.” You can’t do the two things at the same time.
So, part of the connection of “being with joy” is that when the brain is in this threat detection mode, people often feel anxious. They feel depressed. I describe these illnesses like your worst day of flu, times 10. When you have the flu, do you feel positive? No, it’s really difficult to feel positive. If someone says, ”Oh, you’ll be fine in a few days; cheer up!” you just want to punch them in the face. Right? When we’re in a chronic state of illness, we think, “Let me wait for myself to heal and feel better, then I’ll allow myself to be joyful and happy and smile.” But, there is no path to joy. Joy is the path! Therefore, as we heal, when we connect to our natural inner state of joy, this then reduces our threat detection. It reduces our threat appraisal that somehow we are in danger, because the brain makes this logical conclusion: “How can I be under threat, but also be smiling at the same time? It doesn’t make sense. OK, maybe I’ve made a mistake. Maybe we are no longer in danger, and I can switch off these hyper-defensive immune responses.”
2) In the program, there’s a noticeable emphasis on creative activities like singing or painting as a pathway to joy. How do creative pursuits complement the more structured aspects of fostering healing (rumor is the cool kids are calling this neuroaesthetics)?
Some studies have shown that in depression, there is increased activity in the right prefrontal cortex. This is really interesting because we associate the right hemisphere of the brain with emotions (both positive and negative). This increased activity would indicate that there is more of a rumination on what’s going wrong in our lives, increasing this prefrontal activity. Now, this is also part of the brain which is stimulated through creative pursuits. This is why, analogously, we notice that often singers, songwriters, poets, and comedians tend to be people who suffer from depression, or manic depression, or have some form of severe anxiety in their lives. These conditions may have stimulated this creative expression. So, in a similar way, when we engage with creative pursuits, like the ones you mentioned (singing, dancing, creative writing, etc.), what we end up doing is using that extra energy because it is being consumed in emotion. It now gets channeled toward creative activities and creative pursuits, and what that does is once again take a bunch of energy that the brain is experiencing and make it follow a more positive path. So, this is not about toxic positivity; rather, it’s about channeling that energy to something that is positive. It’s redirecting the river. So, our river is going down a left-hand path, digging a channel, and getting very used to the rumination of the negativity. Now, metaphorically, we are taking that same water, that same energy, and now digging a new path on the right-hand path, to say: “This is where I choose to direct that energy.”
When we do that, then the mind becomes so engaged! I’m sure we’ve all had the experience when something bad has happened; perhaps we’ve experienced bereavement, the loss of a job, or a bad relationship, but suddenly we go and sing, or we dance, or we smile and be happy with friends, or something creative, and suddenly we forget in that moment what has happened to us. That’s because the energy has been rechanneled. And, when we practice this regularly, it becomes a source, an expression, and a release of that pent-up negativity.
If you look at celebrities, if you look at people who are creative in their artistry, there’s something about the mad genius aspect of it. These people can come up with such incredible music, or incredible knowledge and insights, but in their private lives, they’re so disrupted. This is because in order for civilization to create the next impulse for creativity, it requires a combination of intelligence (more associated with the left brain), and then radical creativity, which is associated with the right brain. When those two fuse together, that is when genius occurs. That is when new things are created. Therefore, a bit of craziness is always useful.
3) How can one balance the pursuit of joy and fun with the practical aspects of managing their condition, especially in terms of pacing and not overexerting themselves? In my experience treating burnout, sometimes having “fun” is a hard sell, and I suspect this is true with those navigating illness, too—there is a resistance to the idea of embracing joy because, for whatever reason, it’s not easily accessible. How do you address this resistance and encourage people to open up to joy as a necessary component of self-care?
The first thing is absolutely we want to pace our way to recovery. Many of the diseases that we treat (and indeed burnout is one of them), suffer from something called PEM, which is post-exertional malaise. This means that when they engage too deeply in an activity, suddenly they have negative aftereffects, or they may feel exhausted for 24 to 48 hours (or even longer), or cause a relapse in their condition. Therefore, pacing your way through it is very important. Now when we think of joy and/or happiness, there can be different types of happiness. One side of happiness is pleasure, maybe where we are physically engaging in some kind of pleasure activity. Another is excitement: the idea of I feel really excited, and I’ve got an adrenaline rush; I want to go out partying with friends; or, I want to go on a roller coaster. This can stimulate the nervous system. Then there’s another type of happiness, which is contentment. Contentment being where we work really hard at something, which once again pushes our nervous system, but we feel good once we’ve accomplished something. Now, all three of those types of happiness rely on an external locus of joy, which is that we feel joy as a result of something external. But, when we talk about re-engaging with joy in the context of healing from chronic illness, we emphasize the idea of connecting to the natural joy that is already within us.
So, as an example, rather than being adrenaline-fueled, which a lot of people have been in the past, we are talking about the more subtle joys of walking on a beautiful beach, and admiring the sea, and admiring the sky, and looking at the colors, and looking at the flowers—that more mindful approach to joy. Now in that, both joy and relaxation can come. Take the idea of gardening, where we are looking after and caring for plants. We feel a natural love, care, and compassion for these plants. We want to heal and grow them. And there’s no outcome. There’s no, “I’ve got to get this done by such and such time.” We’re simply enjoying it for the experience itself. So, the types of joy we are talking about are the joys that come in the experience, rather than the outcome. When people make that shift, they suddenly start noticing things that do bring them joy and can be relaxing at the same time. That can be a beautiful walk in nature. That can be gardening. That can be learning and playing your guitar. That can be singing. That can be some creative writing. But, whatever it is, it should be something that doesn’t push us for achievement because it is a push to achieve that is often far more stimulating than the activity itself.
So, the joy we are talking about here is very much connected to relaxation. What we generally find is people find it easier to connect to joy over time when they are regularly practicing nervous system regulation. Therefore, in the program, we emphasize the idea of bodywork and embodiments. We emphasize the idea of breathing techniques and meditation techniques. All of these things can reduce our overall arousal to help us “glimpse” joy because we are calmer. Most of our clients have had some level of experience trauma (with a little t or a big T). Accordingly, our starting point with our program isn’t joy, but it is nervous system regulation. Start with that piece, don’t even try to be happy yet. Forget it! Focus on calming everything down, so putting the other parts of the program into practice becomes a lot easier. Of course, if you can find activities that both calm you down and eventually bring you to joy, then all the better, and it’s for each person to find these.
For me personally, I’ll give you an example, if I’ve had a very busy, stressful day at work, the thing that brings me both calm and joy is walking in nature. I can do that for 20 to 30 minutes, and it doesn’t matter how terrible my day has been, I will feel calm. I will feel that joy. Of course, there can be a very small minority that are so hyper-aroused that it’s going to take time for them to both calm and regulate the nervous system. For them, using therapeutic work with one of our coaches if helpful, so they can eventually connect a joy.
We’ve all had this phrase: “The brain can’t tell the difference between what’s real and what’s imagined.” We love to give the analogy: Imagine a slice of lemon; then imagine placing that lemon on your tongue, and you’re biting into it. When we do this experiment, most people have excess saliva in their mouth, even though consciously we know the lemon isn’t real. So, it doesn’t even matter what we perceive as real or not. The brain can stimulate the same mental, emotional, and physical experience just through the power of imagination. Therefore, yes, a starting point if someone’s severely affected (and we deal with a lot of patients who are bed-bound), we say to just imagine certain activities that put a smile on your face, or just begin to just relax your nervous system, or if all you can do is look out the window and look at a tree—there’s still a huge amount to observe and connect with … the simple pleasures in life.
We know that when the nervous system is dysregulated, sleep is also dysregulated. The next day, we’ll feel unrefreshed, and our body and brain will be inflamed. Once again, there is a cycle where it becomes harder to connect and experience joy (with that intensity fatigue we’re experiencing). That’s why it takes baby steps and “glimpsing” about feeling good. Putting more and more tools into practice and using your toolkit. You have a number of different things you can choose from that work for you, and you pick the appropriate tool in that moment to help self-regulate.
4) What are some practical ways you suggest for patients to incorporate elements of joy and fun into their daily routines, especially when their symptoms might limit them?
Many of our clients seem to think that somehow joy is a timetabled activity. That right now, in these 10 minutes, I am doing the reengaging with joy part. What I say is: do what you love. So, if you love singing, you love walking in nature, whatever puts a smile on your face; whatever it is that brings you joy: do that. Also, love what you do. All the activities that you do during the day, which for many people with illness are probably just household chores: bring joy into those activities as well, which just requires a shift of awareness, and a shift of perception.
A beautiful phrase that we use here is not “I’ve got to do it,” but “I get to do it.” This opens up an avenue of gratitude. For example, “I have to clean the dishes.” Frame cleaning the dishes as, “I get to show my care and love for my family.” I get to look out the window as I’m washing my dishes and observe the blue sky. I get to feel the warmth of the water on my hands. Gratitude for being in a situation where you have a sink, you have a kitchen, whereas 20% to 30% of the world’s poor don’t have access to clean water, clean resources, and/or guaranteed nutrition. The moment we start saying, “I get to do this, I get to do that,” each moment becomes an opportunity for self-awareness and gratitude for what we have. In this way, we’re not timetabling the joy, but we’re bringing it into each moment. We are living from a state of cheerful gratitude. I encourage people to incorporate this practice into their lifestyles.
In terms of practical tips, there are ways we can integrate joy into our day. The first is nature. Nature is a natural joy giver. It’s around us all the time. Where can we timetable in time in nature? That could be a walk in nature, or, if we’re severely affected by illness, could we just sit in our garden for a period of time, simply enjoying being in the presence of nature and the beautiful vibrations nature offers? So that’s the No. 1: timetabling some kind of nature into your day, depending on your level of physical ability.
The second is creative pursuits. I think the quickest and easiest way to be creative is singing. We may not all know a musical instrument. We may not all know how to dance. But, singing is so easy. Unfortunately, we’ve turned singing into a performance art, where we’ve got used to shows like “America’s Got Talent,” where you are being judged on how you sing. Did you know our human vocal cords are designed to sing, just like birds are designed to sing? Human beings were designed to sing. It’s the way our vocal cords were designed. We sing as children. But, as adults, we hardly or rarely sing. Yet, it’s part of who we are! It’s part of our tribal existence, where we would sing and dance around the fire in the evening. Unfortunately, television has now become the modern campfire of civilization.
The third is human connection. If we live in a partnership, reminding ourselves that we get to live with this person. Because often we have arguments with our family, our friends, and our partners, instead of deliberately reveling in gratitude for human connection. For instance, what happens when we’re with a particular person? We might think, “I have to deal with this person? They’re really annoying.” But the moment they’re not there anymore, what happens? We think, “Oh, they weren’t that bad. I miss them now.” So, that joy that comes from connection, whether it’s a phone call with a friend, or connecting with people around us and really expressing care. These acts of compassion can be beautiful experiences of joy as well.
5) From your research and the research of others, what are the positive long-term implications of biasing your activities toward joy and fun—for psychological well-being as well as overall health?
I think it becomes a habit. Most of us think that happiness is a result or an outcome that comes from our engagement with the world. That is the premise that I think a lot of our lives are built upon: We work hard, we get a good job, and we’ll feel happy because we can buy stuff with the money we make. What we’re doing by biasing everyday activities toward joy, we’re turning this ideology on its head and, in turn, realizing that happiness is not an outcome. Instead, happiness is practice. It is a practice that we take responsibility for each day. When we do that, then the long-term implications of this are that, hopefully, we maintain our positive mental health. In other words, once we recover from something like a chronic disease, these habits lead to a more fulfilling life that is neuroprotective. So, we’re protecting ourselves from depression. We’re protecting ourselves from anxiety, and we’re developing resilience in our nervous system.
Life will have its ups and downs. I think this is really the crux of positive psychology. Toxic positive psychology is saying, “Oh, that didn’t really happen. That wasn’t really bad.” But positive psychology is more akin to “Whatever happens, I can handle it.” It’s not a positive spin on the situation, per se, but rather a positive spin on our ability to be able to manage the situation, work through our emotions and come out the other side. I believe that is an accessible resilience that we all have within us, if we’re able to connect to it. I believe that through these practices, it’s neuro-protective. We strengthen the resilience of our nervous system, we reduce the reactivity of our amygdala, which is kind of the fight or flight area of the brain. Therefore, we become more stoical, we become less reactive to our environment, and are able to connect to our natural joy and happiness. When we do that, studies show that we can reduce our reaction to stress, we can reduce the physical pain that we may experience in the body. We can increase the effectiveness of our immune system against threats—so many positive mental, physical, emotional, and biological benefits that come from practicing happiness.
