Paul Charney is the CEO and founder of Funmentum Labs. Funmentum is on a mission to bring fun into the workplace. In 1997, Paul founded a sketch comedy troupe called “Killing My Lobster” while living in the Bay Area. Paul believes in using innovative and creative ways to get new ideas that lead to business results. He spent years working as Creative Director for Goodby Silverstein & Partners, where he earned awards for his work on campaigns such as “Got Milk?” He has been published in Forbes magazine, Entrepreneur magazine, and Harvard Business Review. Paul says his mission is to make people smile and enjoy life more.
Devin McNulty is obsessed with the Science of Fun and serves as the co-founder and head of braintending at Funmentum. Devin has worked with Fortune 500 Companies such as ESPN, Google, Credit Karma, Logitech, and many others with the intention of making fun an integral part of their companies. Devin graduated from UC Berkeley with degrees in Development Studies, Economics, and Latin America.
1) What is the origin story of Funmentum Labs? What inspired the group to start a company that promotes growth, engagement, and momentum through fun and playfulness?
Paul: The short answer is that Funmentum Labs is an offshoot of Funworks, an agency that I co-founded with Kenny White and Craig Mangan. The idea behind Funworks originated from my experience working in advertising and leading a sketch comedy group in San Francisco called “Killing My Lobster.” I noticed two different approaches to generating ideas: the collaborative, improvisational approach of sketch comedy, and the individual genius approach of advertising, emphasizing competition and recognition.
I’ve always really enjoyed the sketch and improv approach more than the advertising one. For context, the sketch and improv one was built on collaboration, a “yes, and” approach. And if you’re laughing, that means maybe the idea itself is funny. It is a very collaborative thing. The traditional advertising model is more about individual genius—what I call the Don Draper model, which is where someone goes into a back room and hopefully comes up with a great idea. It’s an old paradigm, and it’s a very competitive paradigm. You’re rewarded for your individual genius. Your individual personal brand means a lot. Whereas when in the sketch and improv world, it doesn’t matter as much.
Analyzing successful advertising projects, I realized that collaboration plays a key role in the journey toward original and breakthrough ideas. This led me to start Funworks, where it was like, “Oh, okay, I’m going to try and change the status quo.” Originally, I invited sketch and improv performers to participate in brainstorming workshops with clients. The workshops were designed to create a safe and playful environment that increased the odds of an “aha” moment.
In the process of building this out, a friend, Erica Fortescue, who is an expert in childhood creativity and worked at the Discovery Museum in Sausalito, California, introduced us to exercises and concepts like diverging and converging that validated and enhanced our workshop environment. We then further developed a workshop process focused on creating a safe and playful space to promote collaboration and idea generation. That’s how Funmentum Labs was born.
Devin: Funworks was thriving with its in-person workshops, bringing together big groups of clients into cool spaces, like an artistic photo studio in San Francisco, as an example. However, when the pandemic hit, it disrupted our business model, which was built on these large in-person gatherings. We had to pivot to virtual workshops on Zoom, pushing the limits of this technology (e.g., breakout rooms), taking our highly structured and timed workshops, and adapting them to work virtually. Surprisingly, the process worked really well and made us wonder, “If we can do this on Zoom, could we build this into software that people could use even when we’re not there?” And that’s what we’re currently working on.
We have a working Alpha prototype that we’ve tested with over 50 clients, and we’ve received positive feedback so far. Our goal is to build software that would enable teams to brainstorm and collaborate virtually using our method, without having to rely on a facilitator like myself to lead the session. We want to make it easy for teams to press play and have a 30-minute or hour-long virtual brainstorm with their colleagues. We’re very excited about this idea, but there’s still a lot to figure out. Our aim is to make our collaborative approach to idea generation accessible to anyone, anywhere.
Paul: I’d like to add that Devin and the team did an excellent job adapting our method to virtual workshops while still building on the same principles and concepts that made us successful before the pandemic. We initially thought that our method relied heavily on in-person interactions, but we were pleasantly surprised by how well it worked virtually. We thought some of it relied on the in-person theater, and ultimately that isn’t true. This made us realize the power of our approach.
During the pandemic, everyone was using virtual platforms like Zoom. However, a friend shared with me, “These [virtual platforms] are all great right now, but if we’re not creative in how we use them, they will also cease being effective.” I agree. It is essential to be creative in how we use this technology; otherwise, it will cease to be effective. This was an important vision, and it’s something we took to heart as we’ve adapted our approach to virtual workshops.
2) Your company website asserts, “We [all of us] do our best work having fun.” I agree (of course), but for the non-believers out there, how would you make the case that fun and play are essential tools for professional development both at the individual and corporate levels?
Devin: I believe that the traditional approach to problem-solving, based on linear thinking and finding a single answer, is not always effective in complex work environments. Working at high-power corporations often requires creative solutions, finding new ways to approach problems, and motivating others to get on board. This is where creative tools and techniques, as well as incorporating fun into work, can make a significant difference. We call this approach “productive play,” which focuses on using fun in the actual work process to help teams unlock better ideas and uncover important truths more quickly.
While some may be skeptical of incorporating fun into work, we aim to demonstrate its power to our clients. We often work in different facets of work culture through really innovative brainstorming sessions, which are a vital part of our approach. However, we find that people often recoil at the word “brainstorm” due to previous negative experiences of maybe feeling a few loud individuals dominated the session, the process lacked structure, or simply because the process was anything but fun. We emphasize simple concepts such as allowing everyone to collect their thoughts individually and then share them out in a structured way, which empowers everyone (even introverts) and creates a more open and energizing environment overall.
One key to fun at work (as mentioned in your book The Fun Habit, Mike) is autonomy. Using fun exercises or structured questions can help team members feel more autonomous in their work. By creating containers for conversation and slightly tweaking how we approach certain topics, we can help people open up and engage with their work more meaningfully. Through our approach of productive play, we aim to bring more energy and creativity to the work process and ultimately unlock better ideas and outcomes.
3) What is the role of psychological safety in promoting fun and playfulness in a work environment? Do you have any practical suggestions based on your work with organizations that can help others create an environment within their workspace that encourages fun?
Paul: When I read Amy Edmondson’s book Fearless Organization, many pieces started clicking for me—it is all about psychological safety. I hadn’t realized that the purpose of a lot of productive play is to create a safe space where people feel comfortable taking risks. Edmondson’s message is about feeling safe enough to put your neck out there and share your ideas and thoughts. The book explores various instances when people either did or didn’t take those risks and the consequences of not feeling safe. I realized that what we’re doing is allowing these ideas to bubble up by creating a different space and mindset for people to let their guard down and explore ideas in a way that’s not possible otherwise.
Devin: At its core, we believe in detaching people’s work identities from their ideas, which is crucial for fostering innovation. A lot of literature about the most innovative companies emphasizes starting early with ideas, seeking feedback quickly, and constantly adjusting those ideas—this is how Pixar and many other companies have been so successful.
What often happens with our clients is that someone works too long on an idea by themselves, and that idea becomes synonymous with their identity. Criticizing the idea then feels like criticizing the person—as if saying the idea is bad is the same as saying the person isn’t smart or worthy. In our workshops and processes, we create a way to put all ideas out there and let people explore them, emphasizing a focus on the ideas rather than personal stakes.
To address your question about a specific strategy, I recommend allocating more time early in any ideation process for people to bring ideas forth, and then it’s all about framing. You say, “I want you to assume that your idea is going to change, and I want you to bring them to your group of peers, and I want you to get specific feedback as if you were a curious scientist.” Encourage them to present their ideas to a group of peers and seek specific feedback. This approach is similar to Pixar’s Braintrust, where directors receive feedback from their peers rather than bosses, and the feedback is non-binding. Allow more space early in the process for peer collaboration to strengthen ideas before identities become attached. There’s an old product adage: “Fall in love with the problem, not the solution.” That’s what we’re aiming for with play. If the initial solution remains unchanged through execution, it’s probably not that good.
Paul: I think the safety aspect is ultimately what play accomplishes. The goal is to reach your true self—those moments when you feel like your genuine self, not just “work me.” Play and fun typically facilitate that, releasing the constraints that allow us to be ourselves and let our genuine ideas flow.
That safety stems from finally being seen and being able to express our true selves. We’ve repeatedly observed that play brings out that authenticity, which can be attributed to the release of certain neurochemicals that enable us to be in that state, free from the suppression or influence of stress hormones like cortisol.
When psychological safety is established, people can be seen; people can feel like themselves because we are all just laughing at these funny and interesting ideas, or we are just pretending we’re wizards because this guy Devin is telling us it’s okay in this moment to have fun. The pressure is reduced, and in turn, we are increasing the odds of new and novel ideas. Fun and psychological safety enable this.
4) Can you speak to what you’ve learned about the importance of community-building and social connection in promoting fun and playfulness at work? And how is Funmentum Labs working to support this?
Devin: We recently completed a six-month training with 30 top executives at ESPN Creative Studio, which led to various benefits. One of the most notable outcomes was the community cohesiveness among these executives. The organization had been restructured multiple times, and many senior leaders didn’t know each other very well. So, we purposefully paired people up from different silos, providing a structured way to have fun together while addressing their work problems.
By the end of the six months, the camaraderie among these executives had significantly improved. The play and fun elements fostered strong bonds, which led to three to five projects with substantial bottom-line business impact. These projects might not have happened without the role of play and fun in building connections.
Another aspect to consider is the difference between formal email requests and informal communication. A lack of true connection among people often leads to wasted time and effort in business, whereas fostering community through play and fun can make everything run more smoothly and efficiently. So that’s another way to look at it. Paul, I bet you have a different way.
Paul: That shared experience we create, and shared laughter, can release oxytocin … and how powerful that is! Getting someone to that place, it’s not as hard as you think. I don’t want to say what we do is super easy, but it is not a significant lift once you know how to do it. You’re just trying to get that playful momentum going for that memorable shared experience.
Fun and play really do have the ability to connect all of us. I have always said fun is part of the human condition. I remember a PR guy saying, “All right, you’re overdoing it now.” And I’m like, “I don’t know. You tell me.”
Devin: So Paul, if you don’t mind me jumping in. One other thing that often strikes me is when clients tell us we’ve accomplished in two weeks what usually takes them two months. I find this fascinating and believe a significant factor is providing a safe space for key people who need to approve a project to come together and play with ideas. This approach not only helps generate better ideas, but also creates community-minded energy around the problem. At the end of a session, people feel more connected and committed to solving the issue at hand.
It’s interesting to see how interpersonal dynamics can affect seemingly rigid, rational business processes. Project timelines may be determined by how long it takes to reach a consensus or are delayed because there is no team dynamic. As a result, some team members end up undermining each other because of poor communication. Play and fun have the power to create a sense of community in just a few hours, helping people get on the same page quickly. Sometimes it can encourage a lone holdout to go along with a decision they might not initially have agreed with due to the group’s energy, increasing overall empathy.
Many of us may feel like lone individuals at work, pushing for our own agendas. Play and fun can shift our focus from “me” to “we.” Both Paul and I are big sketch and improv comedian guys, and we felt the power of that within our comedy groups. And now we’re just like, “How can we replicate this for the dysfunctional teams of the world that need our help?”
5) You facilitate enterprise-level interventions grounded in fun, and you are close to launching your first digital application centered around fun, the Funware Ideator. What’s the most surprising insight about fun and work from this experience that would benefit others by sharing it?
Paul: We have been told not to have fun for so long, many of us have forgotten how to have fun. What’s been missing is some sort of permission to have fun. Once received, we’ve seen it over and over again, we give them that nudge, and people begin to open up again. We’ve done this with so many different companies of different sizes and shapes.
Devin: I think what continually surprises me is just how fast people get to totally new original thoughts as soon as they try some of these novel methods for coming up with new ideas. So, there’s a simple tool that probably people reading this, many of them have already heard about. It’s called mind mapping. You put your problem in a center circle and then just let your mind’s subconscious go wild with thoughts, fragments, and thematic ideas. As soon as I have people do that, all of a sudden, five minutes later, three minutes later, they’re like, “Wow, I just unlocked a bunch of different insights and thoughts about how to think about my challenge.”
And so, what continues to surprise me is just how quickly non-linear approaches can work. Given how readily accessible they are, it’s crazy how much we don’t use them at work. I think a lot of it comes down to fear and this feeling that when we show our ideas or work to somebody else, it has to be perfect. Otherwise, we have the false belief that we will not be a valuable contributor at our work.
If there’s one thing the person reading this takes away, I hope it is this: get rid of that at your company. The more that people can share unfinished work with each other in a playful way and not get defensive about its state, but instead find ways to play with ideas before there is any need for commitment, the company will be much better for it. So, lots of different insights, but that’s what came to mind right now.
Paul: Another surprising aspect is that these approaches work regardless of the problem. I’ve been amazed to see that even with serious, complex issues plaguing companies, the solution isn’t always to delve deeper into data. Instead, we sometimes need to play with the issue, entering a different state of mind that’s free from anxiety and fear. I’ve been genuinely surprised by how effective these methods are for tackling complex, layered, and loaded problems. It’s more potent than I initially realized.
Our philosophy is that the process matters. How you arrive at a solution is crucial; if you want to increase the odds of a better outcome, focus on the journey rather than fixating on the endpoint. It’s essential to keep an open mind and not limit ourselves by knowing exactly where we’re supposed to end up.
Devin: The paradox is that if you’re so obsessed with having the best outcome that you have rigid thinking, your outcome ends up boring and “safe,” which is often less than ideal.
Paul: Or fueled by fear and stress.
Devin: It’s that weird phenomenon where you’re so obsessed with getting the right outcome that you’re shooting yourself in the foot. You have to let go of that for a second, allow yourself to play with things, and say, “It’s okay that we would never do it exactly like this. Keep going. And we will eventually find that remarkable spark that can make it out into the world.”
